The Conscious Investor
Chasing after Financial Freedom often bankrupts other parts of life.
That’s why the Conscious Investor Podcast goes beyond Financial Freedom and helps investors cultivate Personal Freedom by featuring experts in the core areas of health, mindset, and investing.
If you’re looking to grow financially, if you long to unleash your full potential, and build a life of meaning without bankrupting the most important parts of life then this show is for you!
The Conscious Investor
Ep499 Infinite Banking Mastery with Nick Kosko
Ever felt like a well-paid slave? Meet Nick from Create Tailwind, who was living his dream as a pilot until an unexpected layoff turned his world upside down, right after he found out his wife was pregnant. His journey from financial despair to becoming a passionate advocate for financial freedom is nothing short of inspiring. Nick, alongside his partner Jim Oliver, is on a mission to unveil the hidden mechanisms of the financial industry and help others achieve true financial independence.
Curious about infinite banking? We dive into the groundbreaking method introduced by Nelson Nash, which Nick champions wholeheartedly. Learn how using life insurance cash value can eliminate debt and allow you to pay interest to yourself, effectively becoming your own bank. This concept not only frees you from traditional financial constraints but also opens up new avenues for wealth accumulation. Nick breaks down the roles of depositor, bank owner, and borrower, offering practical insights into how infinite banking can revolutionize your financial strategy.
But that’s not all. Discover the advantages of treating life insurance companies as your personal financial institution and the benefits of ownership and control it brings. Nick shares real-world examples of how you can multitask your money to maximize growth and investment opportunities, especially in real estate. We also discuss the power of community and education, highlighting the free resources available through the Create Tailwind community app. Join us for a heartfelt conversation filled with gratitude, and learn how to cultivate a mindset, physical well-being, and financial prosperity that can transform your life.
Hello Conscious Investor and welcome back. I'm your host, julie Hawley. For over four years, I've paired my background in real estate, investing, education and coaching to create powerful content for you each week. This podcast is where we take a holistic approach to investing by focusing on three ingredients to a life of personal freedom health, mindset and wealth. We'll talk about everything from passive investing through syndication and how to use your retirement accounts to boost your investing, to mineral balancing and gut brain health, and into topics that cultivate your inner strength and resilience so you can thrive regardless of any of life's current events. And yes, those are all episodes currently available and linked in the show notes below. Join me each Monday for a mindset episode and later in the week for an interview with expert investors and health professionals, so that you can experience your greatest health, strongest mindset and build the wisest wealth. Nick, so happy to have you on the Conscious Investor podcast.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's awesome to be here. I really am excited to do this with you.
Speaker 1:Well, it's going to be great. I know we're both talkers in Conscious Investor. I think you're going to absolutely enjoy this conversation. It's going to support you so much. We're going to dive on in because we don't want to lose a moment. So, hey, Nick, what do you do?
Speaker 2:And how did you get started? Well, here's what I do, and because I'm just treating this as you and I just getting to know each other is I free slaves, I free slaves, I free people from financial slavery? There's this big, there's this big concept that we all know. We don't all love it, but that's this financial industry. The problem is, almost everyone is a slave to the industry and they don't realize it, because there's such a brilliant game being played they don't even know there's a game being played. And with that comes the scene about money. And even people that are financially successful by some measure, people that have lots of zeros in their bank account, they still could be a slave to the scene.
Speaker 2:I'm very passionate. Our firm Create Tailwind, my partner Jim Oliver and I. We are absolutely passionate about showing people the unseen about money, how it all works. And once we know how it all works, things start changing. There's a little bit of a curse that comes with it, because sometimes people can't handle seeing how the sausage is made right, right, yeah, right. It sometimes can be ugly, and I'm the type and you're maybe the same way, julie is once you see something, you can't unsee it. And I cannot do a financial transaction the same way, and I've had this experience at 47 years old. And I've had this experience at 47 years old. I've been doing this for 10 years and my journey started.
Speaker 2:Frankly, all I ever wanted to do was fly big airplanes around the world. When I was 17, 18 years old, I went to my high school guidance counselor and was like I want to fly those big airplanes. Over there at the airport I'm in Louisville, kentucky, we have the headquarters for one of the you know Fortune 50 companies that flies packages around the world and delivers them door to door. And that's all I ever wanted to do. And by the time I was 30, I had my dream wife. I had my dream job. I had this incredible income, incredible benefits package. I basically had it made, julie. I remember walking down the street with my mom we lived in this very pedestrian neighborhood and I remember telling my mom very, very clearly I'd seen all these like, hey, they're going to put this amount of money into a pension and I'm going to contribute this, and blah, blah, blah. And at 30, so we fast forward. At 30 years I'd be 60 years old and I remember seeing I would have $4 million in this account and I remember feeling like you've arrived, I'm flying a 747 around the world, like I've got the world in the palm of my hands, right?
Speaker 2:And just a few years later I got laid off, through no fault of my own economic downturn, julie. That's when I realized I was just a well-paid slave. That realization gutted me, it broke me down. The truth be told, I had some tearful moments. I found out about that layoff the week after my wife told me she was pregnant with our first kid. Okay, now, for 14 years later, almost 15 years later, we've come out the other side, right? But that realization of, hey, I'm a well-paid slave, I'm losing that income and how am I going to provide for my kids, my wife and soon to be son. And what's amazing is I'll never forget my wife saying it'll work out. She had way more faith before. I understood what faith was and probably she was doing a good job of faking until she makes it. But she's just like this steady Eddie person, right? And so, sure enough, it worked out.
Speaker 2:I got back to flying, julie, because I hadn't totally solved the problem from an income perspective. I got recalled back to flying and I'm interviewing financial advisors because now I got back this job and it's still what I had. Right, I was going down two paths at this point and I was interviewing these financial advisors. Now I've had some great friends that are financial advisors guys I play golf with regularly, guys I drink bourbon with and I would meet with these guys and I'd say, I think to myself, I'm pretty sure this is all for your benefit, not mine, but I don't know how to solve that. Like to see it all I'd done Dave Ramsey's financial noise I mean financial peace class, you know like so I'd heard these things and it's toying with me, right. Like Dave Ramsey saying, hey, you're going to go get 10 to 12% your good growth mutual fund. Like that didn't resonate with me. I'm like I think your math is wrong, but I'm just not that smart. I can just fly an airplane. You pull back, you go up, you keep pulling back, you go down on an airplane. That's about the limit of my competence flying this big airplane.
Speaker 2:I voiced this to a guy I'm flying with one night that I'm frustrated. I don't know who am I supposed to follow in this. He goes. Well, have you ever heard of infinite banking? And Julie that night changed my life because I said what are you talking about? And he starts telling me about this insurance policy and he's showing me like picture. He's got these printouts and stuff and you want to know how small this world is.
Speaker 2:The guy who was his coach the guy that does what I do is now one of my closest friends in the world. We do a Bible devotional every morning together. This guy's down in Alabama like pretty fascinating how worlds come together, right? So we, we flew for the next four nights together back and forth across the country and I kept asking him questions that he couldn't answer. And I'm trying to go to the internet, into the internet, at 35,000 feet, right, doing, doing, doing 10 miles a minute, and this guy can't answer my questions and he goes Nick, you just got to read this book. And I'm like no, I want to know what the book says right now. And he's like I can't explain it to you.
Speaker 2:So over the next weeks I get this book. It's this 92-page book. It's small words, big font, something even I could understand, and I'm reading it in a Denny's in San Juan on a layover and I get 25 pages into this 92-page book and I want son of a gun. This is what I've been looking for of this 92 page book and I want son of a gun. This is what I've been looking for. This is the truth about money, not somebody else's inconvenient truth Like Al Gore's, you know climate inconvenient truth it's. This is like real truth, cause that's what I love. Like I always say, julie, the Bible can be distilled down into one word truth. Well, I want to know the truth so I can make the best decision, and so I look on the internet. Nobody in the state of Kentucky is certified to teach this concept, so I tracked down the author.
Speaker 2:I get Nelson Nash on the phone. He's like 82 years old at the time. I'm like Nelson, I'm lost. I want to be found. Let me in and he goes. Well, if you want to learn how to teach this, then you got to do this, all this stuff. It was super intimidating to me, but I was like I'm in. So I do this whole thing and I get done. I say, hey, nelson, I need a mentor. Now, julie, you've had mentors. Is that fair to say? Absolutely? Now, julie, you've had mentors. Is that, is that fair to say absolutely? You think that you would be where you are today without mentors along the way, absolutely not okay.
Speaker 2:So here's the funny thing Nelson Nash flew airplanes too and he had flown for like six or seven decades and he hit it. We hit it off. So much talking about flying, that I completely fooled him. Like. He thought like I was like the cat's meow, like, and he totally was wrong and I told him this I was like nelson, I've completely fooled you, I'm clueless, and he goes, okay. So here's the cool thing he calls this guy named jim oliver all right, who I refer to as the Michael Jordan of our business. Okay, good luck getting ahold of him. But everybody influential in our space tries to get ahold of him and pick his brain about the magic of money, like he's the guy with the Midas touch, right. And so Nelson calls Jim because they were really, really close. They had gotten really close over like a 15-year relationship, and the way Jim tells the story is Nelson told him hey, there's this guy in Kentucky, he doesn't need your help, but if you'll call him in the Swages Pheres, that'd be a big favor to me. So Jim calls me.
Speaker 2:You know that's 10 years ago and I can tell you, within like two square feet of where I was standing when Jim and I talked that day. It was a house, two houses ago and over about a 10-minute conversation he flipped my world upside down. He asked me these really probing questions about my understanding about money and I was like I don't know. I kept saying I don't know, but I want to learn and I told him I wanted a path out of flying, that I had this. You know I had three kids at the time. I said I want to show my family and my and multiple generations a better way to live. I want to propagate something that I'm passionate about. I want to, I want to spread truth. I don't really care about flying anymore. And, um, that right, there were the seeds that I needed. Like, I needed to water those seeds.
Speaker 2:It's not easy, right? It's not easy to walk away from a job paying you a quarter million dollars a year and puts a bunch of money into multiple pension accounts. It's not easy. It takes a lot of courage for a spouse to support that Right.
Speaker 2:Um, but through a lot of hard work and I always just joke, julia, I'm like a little kid, I'm just curious. Like I want to know, um, I don't want to be a know-it-all Like I want to understand. I want to understand what's going on so that I can operate. Nelson Nash famously said that. He said once you know what's going on, you'll know what to do. And the reality of it is people are doing a lot of things but they don't have all the information and it's really hard to win at a game when you don't know all the rules. So I know that was a really long winded answer, um, but I love, I personally. But I personally love looking back over the last, frankly, 15, 20 years of my life and looking at this journey, looking at the progress that we're making, and then knowing that I feel like we're really doing God's work and spreading truth about things, and that allows me to sleep really peacefully at night.
Speaker 1:There's obviously so much there and I'm familiar because we've spoken before, but I just when you hear the journey that someone is on that has landed them where they are. In fact, just this morning I was thinking like I wonder what my best friend's childhood was like. It just got done spending time Because as adults we don't actually know necessarily what our newer friends' backgrounds are to the core and it really lets you know who they are and these journeys are so important. So to see more than just like a quick vignette really allows, like this greater context, right, it's just a swath of story field that makes a lot more sense and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:I I can relate to how you're, you're talking about, like that moment when you're talking, you know, with Jim and you like I can remember within two square feet where I was. I can do that when when I was a little girl and said I love you, jesus, come into my heart. I can remember when my husband proposed and I can remember where I was when I learned about apartment syndication, like imprinted in my mind, because there are these different points in life that are so much, um, so pivotal. They complete, it is a fork in the road, completely changes your life.
Speaker 2:That's right it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It's that's why we remember these things so much. I want to go so many different directions here. And conscious investor I hear you in my head right now having so many questions. There's so much misinformation out there about infinite banking and we can relate so much to yes, so many people feel like slaves to their jobs. And Conscious Investor I know you love your job, but I know you work with colleagues who are frustrated and feel trapped and they're not living to their full potential because they're not in their zone of genius, they're not where they should be and fear is trapping them. And it's amazing how money enslaves us in so many different ways. I believe it traps the greatest part of human potential that people are created to offer the world because of that fear.
Speaker 1:Well, I got to do this for my money, I got to trade this, and so they don't actually tap into how God hardwired them, and it's one of the greatest tragedies in the world. So let's talk about how we emancipate, which is a word I use here all the time. Conscious investor, you know that.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about how do we emancipate, which is a word I use here all the time. Conscious Investor, you know that. So let's talk about how do we emancipate people from this. Tell us about infinite banking, and it goes by so many other names. Let's just talk about what it is, what it is not and why that is such a powerful vehicle to generate financial freedom in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the other names you hear it from are people. I'm sorry they're just ripping it off from Nelson Nash. Okay, nelson Nash said I didn't discover. He's like I didn't invent anything. I discovered something God put there that's how he would say it.
Speaker 2:Okay, he discovered this on his knees, praying in the early 80s. He had gotten into quite a real estate crunch. Okay, he had a big loan out. That was a variable rate loan. It got up to like 22%. He couldn't pay it. He was struggling to pay it.
Speaker 2:And then he got to digging in reading the provisions of this life insurance contract his brother had sold him back in the 50s and he realized that he had all this cash value that he had access to at his fingertips for a pre-negotiated interest rate which was significantly lower than 22%. He borrowed from it, wiped out the debt. Instead of paying all that interest to someone else, he realized he could pay it to himself and he said infinite banking is not about a product, it's about a process. So we'll just kind of walk through this with your audience here, with the conscious investor here and I know you know this stuff but let's just kind of walk through this with your, with your audience here, with the conscious investor here, and I know you know this stuff. But let's just kind of walk through what it is. And we got to understand what a bank, how a bank operates.
Speaker 2:Shakespeare said if there's that, if we understand the players in the play, we'll know what's going on. And listen, this is coming from the guy who only read cliff's notes uh, for, for, for shakespeare books, but I do know that. Um, so there's only three players in the play there's there's the depositor, there's the bank owner and there's the borrower. Okay, so let's just play a game. Julie, you're the depositor, you go down, you deposit money at the bank to the bank. Is that an asset or a liability?
Speaker 1:when I deposit.
Speaker 2:That's an asset to them don't feel bad about answering it incorrectly, because that's how everyone answers it, only the cpa is a liability to the bank and here's why they got to pay it back to you whenever you want oh, that totally makes sense.
Speaker 2:So what's the asset, the assets, the loan. So if you and I were going to go buy a bank, we would evaluate the bank's loan portfolio. That's where the money is, okay. So the bank takes in your deposit, lends it out to a borrower, the borrower pays back the bank some interest, and then the bank they're so nice, they pay you a little bit of interest for being the depositor. Now let's add some numbers to this equation.
Speaker 2:All right, let's say you deposit $10,000 at the bank. Now, this is a good time for me to say Julie, we have people that put $10,000 a year into their banking systems and we have people that put millions of dollars. Okay, it's linear. So you deposit $10,000 at the bank, the bank turns around and sells that money for anywhere between four and 28%. Right, like 28% being your Bed Bath Beyond credit card. Those even exist anymore. The Bed Bath Beyond go out of business, something like that Maybe, I don't know, but all right. So now I'm going to use 5.2% as an average. The borrower pays back the bank $520 in that equation. Now let's be really kind and say the bank pays you 0.2% for your deposit. That's $20. Okay, now, I know you're writing notes here. So how much better. If the bank collected 520 and they paid you, as a depositor, $20, how much better did the bank do than you in that equation?
Speaker 1:$500 better.
Speaker 2:All right, come on Now. Here's the thing. That's the way most people are going to answer it, but we got to think like a business owner. Okay, so how many?
Speaker 1:I hope you're absolutely loving this and feeling like, oh okay, julie is taking the fall here. Yeah, this is a school of hard knocks this morning.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing Everybody answers these this way, but we have to rethink our thinking, right? If we're going to be the owner of the bank, we got to start thinking a little bit differently. You're really good at apartment syndication, right? You just haven't honed your banking skills yet, okay. So, like, if we're going to hone them, we got to know that this is how it works, right, right? So the way that we figure that is 20 goes into 520, 26 times that's a 20, they did. The owner did 2,600% better than you.
Speaker 2:Now, here's the problem they did it with your money. The bank doesn't have any money in this deal. So what's the most powerful word and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna step out on a limb and say the most powerful word in the English language is leverage. Right, we're always leveraging. Like my assistant, ashley, absolute rock star, I leverage her talent all day, every day, right? So it's not a bad thing, it's a thing. She leverages me right in these equations. So the bank is doing that. Now, the bank made all that. The bank owner made all that money.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, those numbers sound crazy to people. Those are actually Bank of America's numbers from just a few years ago and you can find that in something called a Bauer Financial Report, they evaluate every bank in America and all those numbers are about the same. It doesn't matter what the interest rates are. As Nelson said, interest rates go up, interest rates go down. What is the constant is banks bring in money and they lend it out and they bring in more than what they pay other people.
Speaker 2:Now, infinite banking is this very simple thing. It's about putting a wall around all of that so that you are all three people, period. People that are trying to tell you it's something different. They're telling you lies to just try to turn a trick. You got to understand like this is a drawing that we have on our on one of our training courses. My stuff's all out there on YouTube and in our communities, but it's a picture that's that's burned into my head and you can just picture there's three players and we just would draw, draw a circle around it all. So that's what infinite banking is. It's about learning to have that process down to a T.
Speaker 1:That is insightful, and when you put the numbers to it, it's nauseating to think I'm paying somebody else this when I can pay myself. Which then leads to the question okay, well, nick, how do I pay myself? How do I become my own bank?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Nelson said listen, you can do this process with a shoebox full of money. Listen, you can do this process with a shoebox full of money. You can do this process with a checking account, a CD I mean. In his book Becoming your Own Banker on page 45, it's one of the most brilliant pages in any book I've ever read he compares an IBC sister to the CD sister. They borrow 10,000 bucks every four years, for I think it's 50 years, and at the end of it they compare they pay the exact same amount of money every year on this loan payback and at the end the IBC sister has $706,000 more than the CD sister. And you say 6,000 more dollars than the CD sister and you say how in the world is that possible? Well, the CD sister was the customer of the bank. They were using a certificate of deposit being a customer, and the IBC sister was being the owner of the bank. They were using a tool where they have unique ownership and control of.
Speaker 2:So Nelson just happened to discover that the most ideal platform was this very specifically designed, dividend paying full life policy with a mutual insurance company, and you'll hear the terms like participating life insurance If you hear people talk about investment grade insurance, runaway. Delete that. Those are people like anything other. Like I can't even remember a couple of the other terms some of these knuckleheads use. It's all like marketing chicanery. Okay, there's no such thing as that. Like, banks buy this type of life insurance. It's called BOLI. Bank-owned life insurance Corporations buy this stuff. It's called COLI corporate of life insurance. It's called bully. Bank owned life insurance corporations buy this stuff. It's called Coley corporate owned life insurance. There's no, there's no other terms like that that are, frankly, socially acceptable. Okay, so, like, if you're trying to like weed out who's giving you truth about this and who's not, when they started using some goofy terms like that, just seriously walk away. So he discovered, hey, this life insurance policy has some really unique provisions to it. Now, julie, do you know the difference between a stock company and a mutual company?
Speaker 1:No, I cannot describe it adequately at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's super simple. So, like AIG, aig is a stock company, right? So when they make profits, they pay out the profits to the shareholders first. Okay, a mutual insurance company is only owned by its policyholders. So let's think about how a financial institution works. So we know how the bank works. Does the life insurance company really behave any differently? It doesn't have you ever come across like, in your apartment syndication work, a apartment complex for sale and the note holder is a large life insurance company?
Speaker 1:yes and no.
Speaker 2:There are times where I've definitely seen it and I I consider like reaps and things like that in the process. So, yeah, so my point here is that life insurance companies are some of the largest financiers in the in the world, okay, and so they're doing the same thing everyone else is doing. They're bringing in dollars and they got to go put it to work. Okay, they pay us, the policy holders, some interest and they go out and put it to work and they collect, hopefully, more interest. Now here's the difference that you I'm sure you have a lot of listeners, let's, I'm going to use Chase Bank as an example. And they use Chase Bank, okay, and even if they probably deposited, say, $10 million a year, chase Bank loves them so much that they give them a big dividend check at the end of the year. Right? No, they don't. Chase Bank doesn't do that for its customers, right? We wish they did, we wish anybody did that's right, they don't.
Speaker 2:You don't have any special provision. You might get a coffee mug right or a pen or a pad of paper. It's got chase on it like that's the best you're gonna do, right? Well, here's the difference these life insurance companies that we do business with we're owners in, so it changes the game a little bit. So, jul, julie, if you owned a grocery store, would you shop at your grocery store or would you shop at mine?
Speaker 1:I would shop at mine, that's right.
Speaker 2:So now we're just shopping for money at a financial institution that we have ownership and control of. Okay, here's the unique part Is, when I want to take a loan, the insurance company can't tell me no. Chase can tell you no, I know. You go through underwriting with banks all the time, different lending institutions. It takes a long time, right, you have stacks of paper, stacks of documents you got to provide. Well, here's the cool thing.
Speaker 2:When I want to take a loan from my insurance company, my insurance policy, and I say, hey, so-and-so, I need a million dollars tomorrow. They don't say, well, what are you going to use it for? When are you going to pay it back? What's your credit rating? They go, hey, is this the account routing number you want us to send it to? And they wire it to me, no questions asked.
Speaker 2:So we're in first position as a borrower, and that changes the game. And I own the business. So when the company is profitable at the end of the year, guess who shares in those profits? I do, so it's a different thought process. We're really happy, and if you don't know about this, to be the customer of someone else's bank, you just didn't realize you could actually be in that position, and it doesn't really take a lot more than that. But we're going to have a depositor. We're going to put money into a policy. We're going to put money into a policy If you're putting money into a tax shelter, julie, that you have use and control of anytime you want, and it will always earn interest for the rest of your life Do you want to put a little bit of your money into it or a lot of your money into it?
Speaker 1:A lot.
Speaker 2:Okay, If you're going to make the profits on that that the company makes, do you want to participate in some profits of your money or all the profits of your money?
Speaker 1:A lot right. That's the only place I'm going to be transacting now. That's right.
Speaker 2:And if you could go use that money while it's growing in a tax shelter to go build wealth, buying real estate or businesses in your audience's case, real estate you get both. In your audience's case, real estate, you get both right. And so you're all three players of the play and your money is multitasking. It's growing in this policy, uninterrupted in a tax shelter, and you get to build wealth with it. And it's a paradigm shift because most people you know, let's say, you've got $100 in your pocket and you go well, do I want to keep it in this pocket or do I want to buy the real estate? Do I want to have money in a money market account earning 5% or do I want to buy the real estate? It's either or, and that's how people have always been taught about money. But the reality of it is money can be, and also it can be in this account and also making you money through your, through your behavior. So does that help?
Speaker 1:it's super, it's really helpful and I've had I've had a decent amount of exposure to the concept, but you explain it in a different way. That is also and everyone has a different way of explaining it. But I really appreciate like just being very clear about playing all three roles and valuing that and understanding almost like don't put the money anywhere else, the money starts here and truly treat it like the bank, like go feed the money there and then and then you know, go and work outside of their transact yeah outside of that versus something else yeah, like nelson nash said, listen, everybody should be in two businesses.
Speaker 2:You should be in the apartment syndication business and you should be in the banking business. It's that simple, right. Where we come in, we're guides, we teach people, we're like your swing coach, right, like if you were going to learn to play golf. Would you want Tiger Woods as clubs or Tiger Woods as swing?
Speaker 1:I want to swing. I can put it on any club.
Speaker 2:That's right All day long, right? Well, we're swing coaches, that's what we do, and we're practicing what we preach too. So it's not that, hey, I figured out some fancy presentation or some conversation to have here and I don't do this. I actually put my money in good growth stock mutual funds. It's not like that at all. So that's the passion that we have is finding deals. We do deals with our clients. I mean it's how you. That we have is finding deals. We do deals with our clients. I mean that's how you and I got connected is from a client that I've done a deal with, right? So multiple deals, so it's just fun. I think that that's the key is have fun with it, um and, and know all the ins and outs of it. So if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. People are pretty sneaky with putting a lot of lipstick on things. That wears off really quickly.
Speaker 1:This is interesting. Can you correct me if I'm wrong? I have a few questions Please. One of the interesting things is oftentimes we're concerned about mitigating risk in any investment that we make.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So it is interesting to think, if I'm investing through my own infinite banking policy, right, If I'm investing through that, I almost have a built-in hedge of protection because even though I've borrowed from it, it still looks, the policy is still growing. So even if my investment something happens and it goes sideways and I don't let's just say I get a fraction of the projected returns, I'm always going to have this return growing inside of this policy 100%.
Speaker 2:Does that?
Speaker 1:compensate for some of my incorrect answers earlier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I'll give you an example. Six years ago, I lent money to a guy $110,000. Fbi raided the guy three days after I lent him money and seized all the assets and I got a little bit of the money back. Okay, now, I had borrowed that money from a policy. All I had to do was go earn the 110,000 another way. Not the end of the world, right? Not what I wanted to do, but again, it's not the end of the world. The cool thing was I've been earning interest on that 110,000 the whole time.
Speaker 2:So people go well, how's that possible? I want everyone to listen to this. If you had a million dollar house okay, yeah, and it was paid off and you borrowed $500,000 against that house, julie, do they come and chop the house in half and haul it away until you pay it back? No, no, no. You get to live in the whole house and they just place a lien on your house, right, yeah. So what the insurance company does is they place a lien on your cash value. They lend you money from their general reserves, which are, frankly, massive. These, these insurance companies, are like bunkers of cash. They lend you money from their general reserves. It's an interest only unstructured loan.
Speaker 2:Now I go take down an apartment deal and I borrow a million dollars from my policy and I'm paying interest on that. Now the million dollars is growing in my policy. I took down the apartment deal and remember, this interest is growing tax-free. If you do this the way we show it, you will not pay taxes on these policies, the interest that I paid the insurance company. My CPA has agreed that's a tax write-off. So you say, well, how is that? Remember, I'm borrowing money from a financial institution. If it would be a write-off if I borrowed it from Chase, it's going to be a write-off from the insurance company. So I'll ask you this question. You might have heard this question from Jim, but I'll ask this for your audience's benefit. If I would lend you $100 million today and a year from now, all you had to do was pay me $5 million in interest, would you take the loan? Of course you'd take the loan right like yeah yeah I'm sorry, I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Nick, let me think, let me think hard on this because you could.
Speaker 2:You can make more than five percent right right so that's all that's happening and it's about leverage. It's about opm you're using other people's money all the time and it's about doing it smartly. Don't don't lever up to go I don't know buy a car or go on a vacation or set it on fire at the casino, like we're going and building wealth with this, generating cash flow, so that we can do what we want to do when we want to do it. And that's the power right there.
Speaker 1:So much it's. Yes, I'm, I'm a have a some noise in my background right now. That is like you got to stop. But I'm also experiencing a little noise in my head as to why am I not feeding my policies that I have everything? Why don't I treat them like hungry hippos?
Speaker 1:I don't know if you played that game as a kid, but marbles and conscious investor. You probably remember this. They're the hippos and you pull back and you're trying to grab all the marbles from the center before the other replayers. I feel like I haven't been a hungry hippo and I need to like, honestly, this. This is like you know this stuff. That's why you have these policies, weren't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean you just think about it. What people don't understand, people will start if anybody talks. This is another indicator to not listen to whoever is talking about infinite banking. They start focusing on rate of return in the policy. Turn that off. Okay, the rate of return is noise? Okay, it's going to earn a few percent every year, no matter what? Okay. But let's dig into something here. If you were going to the doctor and you were going to get a shot, is it the volume of medicine in the syringe or is it how fast they inject you that matters?
Speaker 1:It's the medicine. It's how much.
Speaker 2:It's the volume, right, yeah, because not enough won't maybe not do anything, and too much might kill you, okay. So how in the world does this apply to finance? Might kill you, okay. So how in the world does this apply to finance? It's the rate of an equation, like when someone says a 0% interest. It's a lie, it's a distractor. Okay, yeah, rate is a distractor. It's about volume of interest. It's about the volume of interest in every payment that matters. Okay, let's do let's. Let's walk through an example. Let's walk through a mortgage example for your audience $300,000 mortgage at 5%, 30 years. Okay, it's like $1,610 a month. Okay, now, if we take that, times 360 payments, it's $578,000, I think is what it works out to be. Okay, so it's almost twice, but it's 48 cents of every dollar over a 30-year period. Now, julie, if you earned a dollar and you had to give me half of that in interest, do you care what the rate is or that you just had to give me half of the money?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the rate doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter, it's noise, yeah, the rate doesn't matter, doesn't matter, it's noise, okay. So when people say, oh well, you're only earning, let's just say 3% in the insurance contract. Okay, cool. Let's do this math 10 years from now, julie, if I showed you that your policy, if you put $100,000 into it, that you would have 150,000 of additional cash value in that year, so you got 150% on your deposit. Do you care that it only earned 3% or that you got 150%?
Speaker 1:I like the 150%.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, that's what our policies do, right? So, if that's the case, do you want the $100,000 number to be a little number or a big number, huge, as big as I'll? Let you write the check. It would be $10 million, $100 million and get $150 million to use, because you know what to go do with the money. You go build more wealth with it.
Speaker 2:When people don't understand how this is all working, if they don't have a good swing with this, then that's when they don't put enough money into it, right? So people start where they can start and we build from there. Repeat business is huge for us because people go, hmm, does this really work how these guys show it? And they get 18 months in or something like that. I've had people text me six months in and go shoot, I didn't put enough money into this. Okay, nelson Nash had 49 of these policies. I've got 12 of them. Like, you build out branches of your system and you build from there and you keep building wealth and as the money flows back to you from your behavior, you need a bigger vault. I love this.
Speaker 1:It's interesting Maxing out different policies and such. I have so many questions that are far more technical. For you, you'd be like gosh, it's like. It's okay I know you answered some questions wrong, but really, why can't you get that one?
Speaker 2:No, no, it's okay, I know you answered some questions wrong, but really why?
Speaker 1:can't you get that one? Okay, it's like no, no, it's okay, there's so many questions, but that's why you guys have an entire community that supports people. It's not just like so a lot of times, I think, in my experience of interviewing different people who have infinite banking or whatever they want to call it. Usually it's them and that's who it is, whereas you're a part of a very large community, you guys, you and.
Speaker 1:Jim, have developed something that really supports everyone involved. So then people like me who are like, okay, I get the concepts, I couldn't teach it. I surely could not teach the concepts, but I understand the fundamentals and it's enough to like say, okay, I need to feed these policies more, I need to learn more, I need to understand more. You have that community to be able to, to truly learn it and get beyond a basic understanding but to become very like, like you said, you have a swing coach. Like I love mentorship, I just brought a new mentor into my life.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's imperative for success and growth. So can you tell us how? Because, as as you and I know, there are so many options out there, but here are so many misguided options and people that might be here for a moment and then they cannot be successful because they don't understand how to be successful. So they go away and, yeah, just tell us what you have built and how you support the conscious investor and others I love that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, um, we built out our own community app. Uh, if you go to the app store and type in create tailwind all one word, you'll find us. You can join for free. You can go to community dot create tailwindcom. You can join there it's.
Speaker 2:I'm going to make, just off the cuff here, an offer to your audience. If they go to our website or I can even provide a link for you, however you would like to do this, if they go to our website, createtailwindcom, and click on the contact us button, schedule a 20 minute call with me. I can find out how to best serve you. Like, plug you into our education platform. I'll actually give everyone free access to our essentials course, which, once you watch our essentials educational series, people will have about 95% of the essential knowledge about infinite banking. They will know more about infinite banking than most people teaching it. It's very in depthdepth, but we kind of require that of people. You need to be very educated to do this the right way. The rest of the financial industry wants to take control of your money and say watch what I'll do with it, and we've been conditioned to that. But I need you all to rethink your thinking on that and say, hey, I don't need you to be able to teach this, but I need you all to rethink your thinking on that and say, hey, I don't need you to be able to teach this, but I need you to have exposure to these fundamental things. Okay, so we? We created that for everyone.
Speaker 2:Our clients have exclusive access to a mastermind which we're actually launching today, this afternoon, thank you, as our first live mastermind for our clients. Jim and I are just hosting an open forum. Hey, do we need to talk about personal development? Is someone stuck there? Are they stuck in a W-2 job? They're trying to walk across the Epiphany Bridge, or are they like, hey, I'm trying to take down this apartment deal. Who can help me underwrite this thing? Like that's what we're doing with that. But on, there is business owners, real estate investors, newbies, guys that are Hall of Famers in this, you know so.
Speaker 2:We wanted a place where people could come and get educated the right way, because, honestly, you know how this goes, julie, you battle noise all day. There's a lot of lies out there, and so, like I said earlier, we want to propagate the truth, and everything on our community is right out of Nelson Nash's book Becoming your Own Banker. We have our own course on there, titled the same thing, where Jim goes through Nelson's book page by page, in depth, explaining what the heck was Nelson saying. Right, he and Nelson spent a lot of time together and then you can actually watch Nelson's course on there as well. It's a paid product that the Nelson Nash Institute has allowed us to put on there, but there's a lot of amazing resources, a lot of other people from all over the country trying to just get better. But there's a lot of amazing resources, a lot of other people from all over the country trying to just get better, and that's what we love participating in.
Speaker 1:I love that and I also really I deeply value being able to be around other high caliber, like-minded individuals, because we can feel like fish out of water and we can feel like why I have people say that you know, explain, express this to me on an ongoing basis, Like I feel alone. None of my friends are doing this. It's like, okay, you need to be tapped into the pool so that you have that community, you have that support around you and at some point your friends may or may not understand, they get to still be your friends, but you also get to have friends who you can cheer each other on and you can learn from each other, Especially as our experience grows. We can help others, but in the interim we get to reach up and get pulled up, but in the interim we get to, you know, reach up and get pulled up.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. I always just say, like, I host a mastermind live on Wednesday mornings at my office. Okay, and it started. It was just two of us 12 years ago and now like 25 people show up, sometimes like there's a third of people there. I've never even heard of, right? I've never met these people and my one. I've got two rules no whining, and we have one conversation. Okay, there's no side chatter.
Speaker 2:And the big thing that I do is, as I say, come with an ask. What problem are you trying to solve? This will never be a B&I group, okay, don't come here pitching, shilling your stuff, right, like I would say the bulk of the room has no idea what I do. Okay, that's not. That's not the point, right, it's. How do I serve you, right? Um, I want to give more in value than we ever take in payment, right, we've talked about the go-giver book before. It is like model the business after that, model these, these things after that. So that's the one thing we want people to ask hard questions about problems they're trying to solve. If Jim and I haven't solved it before, someone else has. And we want to be sharing ideas.
Speaker 1:I love it. Okay, conscious investor, there are so many options for Actually, there aren't so many options. So let's keep this really simple Go and download the app. Go and download the app and make sure that you, you know, go and get started in the essentials course. What a value to be able to just jump in, get started, just because you are such a valued listener. So you want to make sure that and we'll put a link down in the show notes for you to click and everything to make it simple but make sure that you are taking those steps because you can have this information, but information that you do not take action with.
Speaker 1:It's just entertainment and this show is entertaining at times, but this show is supposed to accelerate you in reaching and exceeding your goals. So don't hesitate, don't wait, don't let yourself get distracted by I've got to get to the home, I've got to have dinner, walk the dog, get my exercise and all that. This is important, and even more so, this is something where going through something like this with your spouse is invaluable, being on the same page, understanding it. So it doesn't matter if your friends don't understand it. If you and your spouse understand it, great, because that's who you have for life. So make that happen and invest in that relationship, invest in learning and growing together in this capacity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nick, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much for your time, thanks for pouring into the conscious investor today and thanks for the opportunity for them to just dive into the essentials course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're welcome, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Conscious investor, don't be a stranger. You know that adventure belongs on the trail and, yes, mountain biking season is upon us and not in our investing and not in our personal lives. So if you need support in some capacity, make sure that you find a time for you and I to chat down in the show notes below. Until next time, cheers to your health, mindset and wealth. Thank you.
